D&D, Social Skills, and the Zen of Roleplaying Games - Gnome Stew

Fuente:

http://www.gnomestew.com/crock-pot/dd-social-skills-and-the-zen-of-roleplaying-games

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FEB 20, 2012 BY GUEST AUTHOR

D&D, Social Skills, and the Zen of Roleplaying Games

Today’s guest article was written by Gnome Stew reader Adam Meyers, the Modern Bard. Adam is starting a third party Pathfinder supplement publishing company, but he took the time out to write this passionate piece on how RPGs can be more than just games. Thanks, Adam!

Warning: This article gets into the philosophy of RPGs and mentions the ’80s. You have been warned.

I’m not a first generation D&D player, but I’m a pretty close second. Back when I was a kid my dad taught all of us to play 1st and 2nd edition and I literally grew up on the game. My childhood is full of awesome RPG memories, but the best part was that it wasn’t just fun — my dad, sneaky guy that he is, would use the game as possibly the best and most entertaining teaching tool I ever saw. All sorts of life lessons, from look before you leap, to think outside the box, to never insult a priest, all found their way into our games. You’d be surprised how well a kid internalizes something when it’s presented through deadly traps and elaborate monster battles.

So when I sometimes see people talking about the problems with RPG social skill checks and say they want them to be more mechanical and less about player skill, I find myself wanting to speak up. I know every table’s different, and yes this gets a bit philosophical, but I’d like to propose a counter-argument to that. Something I call the “Tracy Hickman” approach to gaming.

See, back in the ’80s, when the world was convinced Dungeons and Dragons was some sort of gateway drug to the occult, it fell to D&D pioneers to not only explain how RPGs weren’t evil, but how they could actually be good for you. Gary Gygax compared D&D to a chair once on 60 Minutes, and Tracy Hickman wrote a three-fold essay on RPG Ethics.

Now what follows are my words, not his, but I’m a big Tracy Hickman fan, and if I had to sum up my own takeaway from the third section of his essay, his XDM book, and other places I’ve read his words, I’d say this: RPGs aren’t just about having fun, but about stepping into the shoes of heroes and experiencing their life in order to make your own better.

To contrast, think of a computer RPG. In a computer RPG all the choices have been made for you. You can only do what the programmers decide you can do, and the only choices available are the ones they’ve given you. In a table-top RPG, however, you don’t just watch the story, you in fact make the story. It’s that element of player ingenuity that lets you decide not just what to do, but how to do it, whether it’s fast-talking a guard, swinging from a chandelier, burning an inn down around you, or scaling a giant’s leg using a dagger and short sword (yes, that happened).

So when I see people trying to limit player ingenuity by making things more and more mechanical, especially social skills, I feel like it’s doing an injustice to the players. Firstly, because it’s impossible to separate player and character completely without taking away all of the players’ freedom, and secondly because, with the above philosophy in mind, letting the players live the characters and have that level of freedom is kind of the point.

Yes mechanics determine how well you succeed at a negotiation and making them roll is not a problem, but unless you were to literally script out the players’ speeches and give them only the choice of what option to use (in which case I’d just play Mass Effect), then player skill will always be important because it’s not just the SUCCESS of the venture that’s important, but the HOW. What do you barter with? What are your arguments? Who exactly will you befriend and who will become enemies? As long as those choices are in the hands of the players, then you can’t completely separate the player and the character.

And why should we try so hard to separate them? Yes we’re playing a character, but in the end it’s the player that’s really overcoming the challenges and solving the puzzles. We could make it purely mechanical and just watch the characters overcome the situation, or we can be the ones stepping into the shoes of the heroes and actually do those things ourselves. That’s not only the soul of RP, but that’s how we learn something through that imaginary world we can then take home with us. Does that mean a social player will do better at social situations? Yes it does, but it also means a non-social player rolling someone with amazing social skills gets to not only be effective, but actually get to stretch his own social muscles in a way that’s not only fun, but that he can then take home with him.

Now I’m not saying RP should take the place of mechanics. The point of rolling a character, after all, is using his stats and skills to determine success. What I am saying, though, is that letting the players stretch their own mental and social muscles to help solve the encounter can not only be fun but also make a better game. Sure my players aren’t coming to me primarily to improve their social skills, but if my games can not only rock my players socks, but also give them something to ponder and use in their own lives, than I consider that a pretty successful campaign.

 

Filed under: Crock Pot
Tags for this article: dnd, dungeons and dragons, guest article, omg like the 80s,social skills, Theory, tracy hickman, zen

Masks: The Ultimate NPC Resource for Any RPG

Our second book, Masks: 1,000 Memorable NPCs for Any Roleplaying Game, is now available in print and PDF!

Reviewing Masks, RPG Blog II said, "Masks is a system-neutral, well-organized treasury of memorable, easy-to-use NPCs that will add to any Game Master’s arsenal."

Buy Masks now and start using it in your game tonight!

1. 

   1

   undermind

   True words, And excactly the reason i play and run RPG’s. if i wanted a predictable sotry, i would have written a book. I want to co-create a world of imagination, think out intresting puzzles and most of all, have fun. Skyrim’s good, but creating a sotry with a bunch of other people this way is just so much more rewarding

   Reply

   Feb 20th, 2012 - Link
2. 

   2

   Troy E. Taylor

   The soul of RPGs? I think you’ve touched upon one of the things I think rpgs can do exceptionally well — help a person overcome the fear of failure. Many players will be paralyzed, or will hesitate in uncomfortable in-game situations, because they fear their character will fail — and by extension — they will fail, too.

   But rpgs offer a “safe place” for failure and a “fun, fantastic place” for success, provided the table has other people who are encouraging and understanding.

   1) In most situations, the game is rigged to the players’ advantage, either the challenge is do-able or the character being played possesses the requisite ability to accomplish a given task; 2) A good GM will foster an environment where it is the ATTEMPT that is valued. Herioic characters always give it the “ol’ college try.”

   I really think it’s cool you have a connection to the game through your father. I don’t know if you realize it, or not, but that is a special and rare thing.

   Reply

   Feb 20th, 2012 - Link
3. 

   3

   gmdad

   Excellent article, Mr. Meyers. It is cool seeing you reference your dad using RPGs as a family activity/parenting tool. I do the very same thing with my kids and their friends. My favorite thing to teach through games is that although right is right and wrong is wrong, doing right doesn’t always mean everything is rosy afterward. Deliberately doing the right thing sometimes means also deliberately causing an uncomfortable reality for yourself or someone else. Often, my eldest (13 yr old girl) will refuse to make an important in-game decision and proclaim, “We should do this, but that ‘bad’ thing will happen!” I’ll respond dripping with sarcasm, “Aaaaaand? Welcome to life. You’ll be living it on your own soon.” Queue teenager nasty look. (Girls are particularly good at it.) ;-p

   I also appreciate the reference to the RPG stigma of the 80s. Your “gateway drug to the occult” metaphor is perfect. I’m a very new gamer (only a few years old, 35 in real life). Being a practicing Christian who grew up one in the 80s, that stigma had stuck with me. Until, that is, a gamer buddy (also Christian) told me that I needed to get over it and check RPGs out; he knew my family would eat them up. An IM exchange after I looked stuff up during lunch went something like this: “So, RPGs are really just collaborative story-telling with a game dynamic?” “Exactly!” “Where have I been my whole life!?” We got into them quickly and heavily. Funny epilogue: I’m a youth (read, “teenager”) minister at church. My kids’ and my enthusiasm has been infectious. After having a bunch of kids that I teach begging – and after quelling parental worries (stupid 80s) – I am running ~4 active games currently. I even have one of the pastor’s kids in one! Good times.

   Reply

   Feb 20th, 2012 - Link
4. 

   4

   derobim

   If you leave social skill success completely in the hands of the player’s ability, not the character’s ability, then why even have the social skills? I agree that it shouldn’t be completely mechanical; however, I don’t think the player’s ability should be as important as the character’s skill, either.
   I once built a social character for a Burning Wheel campaign (a system that has a “social combat” mechanic, the Battle of Wits). The GM never called for a roll of my social skills, instead just listening to what I as the player said and reacting to that, which meant I had wasted roughly 2/3 of my build on things that never mattered.
   I’d rather see the player give a short snippet of the basics of their argument and then get modifiers to the roll based on that. That way, the player still feels in control of the character, but the character skill still matters.

   Reply

   Feb 20th, 2012 - Link
5. 

   5

   Martin Ralya

   @derobim – Doing that in BW would piss me right off, because the implicit agreement is that the rules of the game are going to be the rules at the table.

   But on the flipside, there are no skills in B/X D&D. None. So your GM might be carrying over preferences from that era or that play style — which is valid, but I’d argue totally invalid at a BW table.

   Reply

   Feb 20th, 2012 - Link
6. 

   6

   Vantage

   I agree that roleplaying games are an excellent way to learn things. My own kids have learned more that a little about tactics, group dynamics, history, and even arithmetic from playing with me. Maybe my friends have too. I know I have.

   I disagree with the author and agree with derobim when it comes to social skills. In my opinion, roleplaying and dynamic description should definitely provide bonuses to the mechanics, but should not generally trump them.

   Just as when you get a bonus to a combat roll for positioning yourself well, or using the best weapon for a given opponent, making a clever speech or coming up with the right argument to convince the baron should give you a bonus. Occasionally, when a moment of brilliant in-character oratory awes the table – makes other players stop and applaud – the roll can be dispensed with, but this should be the exception, not the norm.

   I believe this approach encourages roleplay and ingenuity, whatever the social abilities of the players. Latent actors and wallflowers alike are rewarded for stepping up and engaging the social mechanics, but the “face” character will generally outperform the “brick” no matter who is playing him, which is what you would expect after looking at their character sheets.

   Maybe this is what the author meant. If so, I think he overstated his case, and came off sounding a bit like “those guys” who seem to enjoy arguing with the GM without regard to their character’s abilities.

   Reply

   Feb 20th, 2012 - Link

Nunca preguntes… - Detrás de la Pantalla

Fuente:

http://detrasdelapantalla.org/2012/01/nunca-preguntes/

Información:

Nunca preguntes…

18 Enero 2012, por Rafa

Cuenta Myt­hic­Party en su artículo publi­cado en Dun­geon Mas­te­ring su expe­rien­cia de hace unos años jugando la aven­tura El Tem­plo del Mal Ele­men­tal, en la cual el DM de turno hizo un buen tra­bajo en la recrea­ción y la reac­ción de los enemi­gos, pero cayó en la trampa de pre­gun­tar a los juga­do­res algo así como ¿Lo habéis pasado bien?.

Esto lo hacía siem­pre justo des­pués de cada par­tida, y claro, en esa situa­ción hay pocos juga­do­res que res­pon­dan nega­ti­va­mente. De hecho, todos res­pon­dían "por supuesto" con son­ri­sas for­za­das. Cuando durante la par­tida se notaba que algo fallaba nadie se lo comen­taba al DM, y éste con­ti­nuaba la tónica gene­ral de las par­ti­das ante­rio­res total­mente ajeno a cual­quier queja o males­tar de los jugadores.

Como bien señala el autor, el DM pre­gun­taba en reali­dad "¿Lo habéis pasado tan bien como yo?", en donde sub­yace el deseo sin­cero de cual­quier DM, direc­tor de juego o Story­te­ller de agra­dar a sus jugadores.

Voy a des­viarme un poco de lo que cuenta ese artículo para apun­tar una anéc­dota simi­lar en el fondo que nos ocu­rrió hace muchos años. En uno de esos lar­gos vera­nos de ado­les­cen­cia en los que se juega casi a dia­rio, deci­di­mos tur­nar­nos varios juga­do­res en la direc­ción, de tal manera que cada uno dis­pu­siera de tiempo para pre­pa­rar "su" aven­tura.

El caso es que uno de ellos, como tesoro final de la aven­tura, colocó algo así como dos millo­nes de mone­das de oro en lin­go­tes, en la creen­cia de que nues­tra satis­fac­ción por tan des­pro­por­cio­nada recom­pensa equi­val­dría a cata­lo­garlo como buen DM y su par­tida como genial y mara­vi­llosa.

Evi­den­te­mente todos éramos unos incons­cien­tes e inex­per­tos juga­do­res, pero en nues­tro inte­rior todos per­ci­bi­mos el error de cálculo del DM al colo­car seme­jante tesoro. En pri­mer lugar, no había­mos hecho dema­sia­das heroi­ci­da­des para mere­cer tal can­ti­dad de oro; no había un sufri­miento pre­vio equi­pa­ra­ble a la recom­pensa reci­bida, y eso hacía que sin­tié­ra­mos casi como si lo hubié­ra­mos robado. En segundo lugar, por sen­tido común, la can­ti­dad de oro era tan desor­bi­tada que se podía com­prar una ciu­dad del tamaño de Water­deep varias dece­nas de veces. Reba­saba de tal manera lo que podría­mos haber espe­rado que nin­guno supo qué hacer con los lin­go­tes^[1].

Y nadie se vol­vió loco con su parte; nadie se com­pró un cas­ti­llo, ni un reino entero ni nada pare­cido. Quedó como una anéc­dota, un tesoro ilu­so­rio que aña­dir al anec­do­ta­rio de nues­tro grupo.

Frente a nues­tro rela­tivo des­con­cierto y nues­tra luju­riosa ava­ri­cia, el DM lo pasó bien. El momento orgás­mico de anun­ciar el oro que había en la cueva supuso el cénit de su aven­tura, el coro­la­rio que él, como DM inex­perto, ansiaba infe­rir de su peri­plo como direc­tor de juego. Él nunca nos pre­guntó qué tal habían sido sus par­ti­das: daba por hecho que lo había­mos pasado bien^[2].

Myt­hic­Party sugiere dos pre­gun­tas en lugar de una, algo como "¿Qué os gustó?" y "¿Qué cam­bia­ríais?". Esto queda a gusto del con­su­mi­dor, como suele decirse. Nadie mejor que el pro­pio DMpara saber si la gente res­pon­de­ría con sin­ce­ri­dad, o si la gente se impli­ca­ría hasta ese punto (digo esto por­que, des­gra­cia­da­mente, muchos juga­do­res sólo exis­ten el día de la par­tida: vie­nen, jue­gan y se marchan).

Tirando de otra anéc­dota, esta más reciente, uno de nues­tros juga­do­res comenzó muy fuerte su par­ti­ci­pa­ción. Se impli­caba en todos los fre­ga­dos, ayu­daba al resto, jugaba con sen­tido, etc. Hasta que otro juga­dor, ausente durante un tiempo, regresó. Nunca sabré expli­car el motivo, el caso es que pri­mero cogió celos del segundo. Y según pasa­ban las par­ti­das, la des­gana que mos­traba aumen­taba expo­nen­cial­mente. En sus últi­mas apa­ri­cio­nes se sen­taba, escu­chaba el resu­men de la par­tida ante­rior y sacaba un libro. Y a leer. Sólo alzaba la vista y resu­ci­taba de entre los libros cuando había que tirar para ini­cia­tiva o ata­que, pero nada más. Horas des­pués, ya con­cluida la par­tida, me escri­bía con­tán­dome lo que no le había gus­tado de la par­tida y alguna que otra queja más agria.

De estas situa­cio­nes se extraen muchas con­clu­sio­nes, pero en este caso, quedó claro que las pre­gun­tas sobran. No hace falta son­dear ni ser un genio para ave­ri­guar quién dis­fruta y quién no, para saber qué no le gusta a un juga­dor o qué le molesta al otro.

Reto­mando el artículo de Myt­hic­Party, pre­gun­tar a un juga­dor qué no le ha gus­tado lo sitúa auto­má­ti­ca­mente a la defen­siva, bajo la dis­yun­tiva de ser sin­cero y moles­tar^[3] a quien ha dedi­cado su tiempo para que pue­das jugar, o men­tir y pasar página a la espera de mejo­res par­ti­das, sim­ple­mente por­que es más fácil sen­tarse y escu­char que lo otro.

El artículo de Dun­geon Mas­te­ring hace una refe­ren­cia al valor intan­gi­ble de la pala­bra dife­rente (pre­gun­tando a los juga­do­res "¿Qué te gus­ta­ría que fuese dife­rente?"), ase­gu­rando que ese tipo de pala­bras inclui­das en la pre­gunta espo­lean la ima­gi­na­ción del juga­dor al res­pon­der. Y eso supon­dría una res­puesta crea­tiva en lugar de una crí­tica nega­tiva. Tam­poco creo que sea nece­sa­rio hacer mala­ba­res con las pala­bras, las cosas siem­pre son más sencillas.

The 1 Thing You Should NEVER Ask Your Players - Dungeon Mastering

Fuente:

http://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/the-1-thing-you-should-never-ask-your-players

Información:

The 1 Thing You Should NEVER Ask Your Players

A few years ago, I was fortunate to be part of a kick-ass campaign.  It was based uponThe Temple of Elemental Evil, an AD&D adventure so adventurous it needed be labeled as being a ‘Supermodule.’  Even discounting the 128 page size, the scope and scale of T1-4 (which later spawned an equally badass sequel written by Monte Cook) with its various antagonists, was mythic.  Our DM, who I’ll call Dan, ran it with the 3.0 ruleset so we could play an Old School classic in a New School edition.

While converting ToEE was impressive, Dan’s real achievement was running the dungeon in such a way that it felt as a fully functional ecosystem.  He made the entire Temple seem as if it was truly alive- with both their initial reaction and then later the active anticipation of our party.  In short, Dan’s bad guys constantly evolved which for us as players was a paradigm shift in how bad guys were run.  But there was 1 thing Dan really didn’t do well, and that was how he solicited feedback.

Last time, in d10 Things You Must Do Between Campaigns, I talked about some critical things all DMs should do when transitioning campaigns.  These (7) tips will both help successfully end the current game while sufficiently prepping for the new one.   And 1 of those tips was to Review How the Campaign Went which is to say, you need to get feedback from your players regarding your DMing skills.  Honest feedback.  Which in many ways is like a boss asking to hear how he’s doing from his employees: the boss is almost always told what they want to hear.  Let’s look at how that kind of useless (even counterproductive) feedback happens.

At the end of every ToEE session, Dan would inevitable speak those words we knew were coming, and dreaded hearing.  “Well guys, did you have fun tonight?”  Putting on our best forced smiles, everyone’s answer was always the same: “Yeah man, of course.”  Now, the majority of nights this truly was the case and therefore an honest answer.  But when it wasn’t, when the game lacked a certain something or simply wasn’t up to par, our DM never knew any better. Because what he was asking was akin to being asked, “Was it good for you too?”  By that I mean there’s only one smart answer.  In the Nine Hells, there’s only one safe answer to both of those questions.  So we always had fun, even when we didn’t.

What should Dan have been asking?  What should YOU be asking?  Its actually quite simple, and with apologies to Matt who left a comment on this piece’s predecessor, doesn’t require a player survey to happen.  There are 2 key things that you seek: “What did you guys like?” and “What would you guys like to see done differently?”  The former tells you those things that you need to keep doing.  The answers will provide some much-needed encouragement.  And these answers about what is positive with your DMing will (gradually) help your players feel comfortable enough to answer the followup query.

Which are those things that you need to do better.  Those things you should improve upon.  Put bluntly, those things you have to fix.  However the phrasing of this is crucial.  You don’t want your question to come out as, “What didn’t you guys like?”  Because that immediately puts the players on the defensive.  Which is why ‘differently’ is a great word since gamers let their imagination run rampant so they can easily relate to the possibility of differences rather than negatives.

Ask these 2 key things at the end of every session (preferably via email/forum to not put anyone on the spot), politely push for specifics, act on what you learn, and your DMing will soon level up.  Your player may even honestly be able to say that they had fun.  ‘ToEE’ next time.

Rating: 4.2/5 (9 votes cast)

Leave a comment (9 comments so far) »

1. Nikolaos Gaitanis says:

   December 24, 2011 at 3:33 am

   Many a time have I faced as a DM the tensed looks of my players when I asked them that very same question. I always got a thumbs up, even when I knew that the session had gone badly.

   The article really does show the only way to get some real feedback, both in RPGs and in real life. You should always ask positive questions and provide positive alternative answers. That’s the only way to get answers that are useful to you and to the group.
2. jonathan cook says:

   December 24, 2011 at 7:51 pm

   All GM’S need to read this but most of the gm’s i have had have been real a holes. one of witch took a way my character saying he had dis-horned himself and then after i made a new character he killed him and acused
   me copying another players character. i am no longer playing with them.
3. Mark says:

   December 25, 2011 at 8:52 am

   Wow how sensitve do you have to be? I’ve been lucky to play RP games with people mature enough to give and take constructive criticism. It really made me cringe reading the main article and Nik’s reply about players and DM’s unable to communicate honestly. Although being British, it has always weirded me out when you here USA’ers quote ‘if you can’t say something positive, then don’t say it’….. chuckle…. If the people you are playing with are ‘friends’ then you should be able to listen or tell the other players if you thought that a game sucked becuase of…..(insert reasons). I mean what do you do when it’s a real life situation? I just hope none of your players has BO…. Happy Gaming!
4. nickalin says:

   December 25, 2011 at 6:34 pm

   Hello All
   I ask these very questions at the end of each session… I request a Likes & Dislikes note/sheet handed in from each player. Sometimes its just one word, some times its a sentence & on the occasion its a paragraph. Quick easy and a little bit less painfull, as each person can answer without pointing fingers. I get the information I need to adjust the game and they get to tell me in a way that is comfortable for us. Try it sometime…
5. Boose says:

   January 2, 2012 at 4:25 pm

   I’ve been lucky enough that I game with a really close group of friends, so when I ask “What did you guys think?” and I get the canned “It was fun” I can turn back to them and ask what needed to be improved and if any parts dragged for them (usually I start this off by telling them what didn’t work for me, this way they feel that the gates have already been opened so they’re just adding to the pile). I can’t imagine having a group where we don’t feel like we can talk the game out with each other and discuss the highs and lows of a session.
6. MythicParty says:

   January 5, 2012 at 9:07 am

   Hi readers, 1st off, thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my piece. I really appreciate it.

   @Nikolas- I appreciate you sharing your experiences & glad the piece was helpful to you. I truly believe that using a + based approach is key to getting + results.

   @jonathan- finding a DM who ‘fits’ with your roleplaying (and vice versa) is crucial for everyone’s enjoyment. I hope you found someone to run your games that you were more compatible. Or, perhaps try sitting behind the screen yourself.

   @Mark- you’re right, there are a lot of weird American cultural aspects. i.e. we love our violence but seem to lose our shite if there’s a bare boob. However, for me, not completely critiquing the DM always been a matter of politeness. I’ve been in 1-shot Con games where it was obvious that NO ONE had fun, yet nobody wanted to be ‘that guy’ who said something. But I think even amongst friends, there’s a tendency to not want to either hurt or piss off the person who is sitting behind the screen. Both because I think most players recognize the time/commitment DMs make, as well as how upsetting them can be detrimental to character health. Per some British guy; “Though it be honest, it is never good to bring bad news.”

   @nickalin- I can appreciate the immediacy of sheets at the end of the night while the session is still fresh in people’s minds. I just wonder if having time to do some reflection/thinking the evening over would provide deeper results.

   @Boose- It definitely is great when you can game with close friends. And by having the DM go 1st with what didn’t work, that definitely would put the players more at ease for giving their own criticism.

   Thanks again for reading & responding.

1. Ravenous Role Playing » Blog Archive » Friday Five: 2011-12-23 linked here

   [... A few years ago, I was fortunate to be part of a kick-ass campaign.  It was based upon The Temple of Elemental Evil, an AD&D adventure so adventurous it needed ...]
2. Dungeon Mastering: The 1 Thing You Should NEVER Ask Your Players | Nearly Enough Dice linked here

   [... A few years ago, I was fortunate to be part of a kick-ass campaign.  It was based upon The Temple of Elemental Evil, an AD&D adventure so adventurous it needed ...]
3. Nunca preguntes... | Detrás de la Pantalla linked here

   [... A few years ago, I was fortunate to be part of a kick-ass campaign.  It was based upon The Temple of Elemental Evil, an AD&D adventure so adventurous it needed ...]